Not a bad car for an 1,800 mile road trip 

"sm70- why not Duesenberg?" (sm70-whynotduesenberg) 09/27/2018 at 10:48 • Filed to: None

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CTS-V Wagon from California.

Ash78, voting early and often > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 09/27/2018 at 10:53

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I always wanted to like these, but could never get over the slapped-on rear end. It was a noble idea, but came across like some of those early 90s Accords and Camries where the wagon was an afterthought. That giant D-pillar is the main offender, especially the slightly-off-parallel angles of the two sides of it.

I still smile when I see them, since I’m glad people actually bought them.

WilliamsSW > sm70- why not Duesenberg? 09/27/2018 at 10:53

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Ya until you get that 3rd ticket for doing 110 in a 70...

Wacko > Ash78, voting early and often 09/27/2018 at 10:54

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who cares about that if  its a manual.

Milky > Ash78, voting early and often 09/27/2018 at 11:08

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The wagon was an after thought but I still like it. Its different at least.

But I’m also biased because I had the guy that designed the wagon bu tt , as a teacher.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > Ash78, voting early and often 09/27/2018 at 11:53

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Another thing is, I’m not a huge fan of the interior. Or really Cadillac’s design language in general.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > WilliamsSW 09/27/2018 at 11:54

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That’s what I’ve come to learn about comically fast cars, to appreciate their comically fast abilities, you often find yourself reaching the speed limit extraordinarily quickly before you’ve even stretched the cars legs. However. I still enjoy it.

sm70- why not Duesenberg? > Ash78, voting early and often 09/27/2018 at 12:27

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IDK I like the tail lights.

Amoore100 > Ash78, voting early and often 09/27/2018 at 12:38

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It’s obviously because they wanted to reuse the sedan rear doors which I think was a hideously cheap move considering Volvo gave up that practice in the nineties along with everyone else. So, typical GM. They still could have made bigger quarter lights, but it’s also pretty clear that the angle then between the window and the taillight would still be completely off and even more emphasized and they were probably too cheap  to change that too. I hate how the CTS wagon is flawed in this way because I really would love to own one, but it would bother me no end to see those incongruous lines on a daily basis.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 09/27/2018 at 12:55

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Still a hoot. I’d rather have the power and not be able to use, than not have the power. Gotta be defensive though. You can close in on people deceptively quickly. These second gen Vs are so nice though. You don’t have to muscle them around if you don’t want to, but holy hell,  hang on when you stomp the go pedal.  The first gens were fun too, had one for 2-3 years, but it really begged to be driven hard.  Those low speed shifts were a bit rough, whereas a spirited shift would be nice and smooth.  The driveline wouldn’t unload if you stayed in it and kept it nice and smooth.  These second gen Vs were so much nicer than the first gen.  And I imagine the 3rd gens are even better...  but still not depreciated into my price range.

Ash78, voting early and often > Amoore100 09/27/2018 at 13:09

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You nailed it. That’s why it looks so tacked-on — IMHO a proper wagon should have rear doors with square-ish glass, not a taper like a sedan. I also don’t love the overly-raked rear end, but I’m probably preaching to the choir to a Volvo fan (at least until the last couple generations, anyway)

Chariotoflove > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 09/27/2018 at 14:48

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This is so true.  The first time my wife drove my K900, she said she was thinking about getting up to speed limit, looked down, and she was already there.  It’s so smooth that unless you mash the pedal, you can be at warp 2 without realizing it.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc 09/27/2018 at 14:56

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Yeah, I’d definitely love to drive one. I’m currently driving a Taurus SHO with a tune, a tune did quite a lot for that car since it’s a twin-turbo, lots of room left on the table by Ford. It’s comically fast for a Taurus.

Amoore100 > Ash78, voting early and often 09/27/2018 at 14:57

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Indeed. My XC70 is as square as squarebacks go!

Still think the V90 should have been this, but the V60 is a step in the right direction at least...

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > Chariotoflove 09/27/2018 at 15:08

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Yeah, on my SHO (tuned) I won’t have even reached near the peak of the rev range sometimes and will already have reached the speed limit, while the car will happily wind it out for much higher speeds. And this is like a 1/2 throttle scenario.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 09/27/2018 at 20:39

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That would be a nice sleeper car.  Awd and a bunch of power, good times for sure.  Similar to my S8, except yours won’t cost as much to maintain.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc 09/28/2018 at 09:28

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Yeah, most people have no idea how fast it is. I like the fact that it has AWD, it’s hard to find AWD cars with that kind of power. I’ve been thinking about my next car and I’m if I want a sedan or coupe, it’s what? BMW or Audi? I don’t want a Dodge. I suppose Ford is planning on an AWD Mustang, but not sure that I want one of those either.

Your S8 is one of those options, I’ve personally thought of the S5, RS5 or S6. But I’m concerned about the cost to maintain them. How has it been for you with the S8? Does that have a 4.2 V8 as well?

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 10/01/2018 at 04:34

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It has the 5.2 V10. Plenty of power, but all the services are expensive. The oil changes are a 12liter affair, so two 5quart jugs and a few extra quarts to get it topped up. But that’s not so bad now. I’ve found the Mobil 1 European 0w40 meets the VAG spec and I can get it for just over $30 at Meijer when they run sales. So now my oil changes are less than $100. I do them every 5000 miles too, just to be conservative. I’ve had the intake off to do a decarboning and that was a bit costly, but I used the time to replace some leaky valve cover gaskets too. Air filters are a bit pricey IMO, and you have two, so doubly expensive. Best I think I’ve found is just under $30 apiece. It can be a bit tricky to work on. It’s not so much the part that fails that’s the problem, it’s getting to that part. I’ve done the engine oil cooler due to coolant leaking into the oil and the whole nose came off and the radiator too. Good thing for blackstone oil testing. Found the coolant leak when it was still very minor. Trans fluid is also $20+ per quart. And it holds something like 12quarts. But that’s not a big deal. It doesn’t require much servicing. But I’ll do another fluid drain and fill here before winter, and grab a fluid sample for testing as well. That’s only 4-5 quarts of fluid out with a drain and fill.

The mechanics aren’t too bad, it’s the electrical stuff that will be not so much fun.  As with any nearly 10 year old German car, they have sensors for everything.  And motors for all sorts of stuff.  But that’s all part of the deal.  Still and very enjoyable ride.  Oh yeah, forgot about the air suspension.  It’s better than the allroads system, but folks still have issues with them over the years.  And the air shocks are $800-$2000 a corner depending on what one you purchase.  

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 10/01/2018 at 04:40

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I thought about the other high power variants too, but what brought me to the S8 was the aluminum body and the larger size. My ‘12 S4 was getting cramped for kid hauling duties, and couldn’t really get three kid seats in the back. The S8 is a much better option for 3 kiddos in the back seat. But I would love an RS 5 for a toy. But I’ll probaky go back to a CTS-V or a corvette for my next dedicated track toy. Someday  anyway, once my boys are old enough to help me wrench.  That and after depreciation does  it’s thing to the costs.  

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc 10/01/2018 at 09:40

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That’s definitely a case of where you have to do your homework before buying the car. Those costs are decidedly above average, haha.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 10/01/2018 at 22:43

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Most definitely.  I also set aside an oh shit budget of $2k in case things go sideways and I need to get something expensive repaired.  Pay to play.  And it helps to have an extra vehicle around to daily if I need to lay my S8 up for a stretch.  Still a great commuter car.  

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc 11/05/2018 at 11:28

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Just remembered you had mentioned owning a V10 S8, I’ve been recently obsessed with the V10 S6 (2006 - ‘11). They can be had for 13 to 18k with roughly 6 0 to 80 k miles on them. Aside from being expensive to service, I do see relatively few reports of catastrophic failure or consistent issues with reliability. What’s your take on that?

Another thing I’ve found interesting is that it actually isn’t all that fast, considering it’s power level and engine size. But I’m not too obsessed with that, I’d be buying it more for the cool-factor, the rarity of it and the sound of that V10.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 11/05/2018 at 15:18

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It’s plenty fast. It made me giggle last week when I was pulling off from a light and diving onto an on-ramp.

They are supposed to be very stout. The trans is supposedly pretty bullet proof. Same for the engine. The big letdown will be the electrics. So many motors and sensors that can fail. But on the flip side, you can plug in to read the sensors too to see what’s going on and what errors might be present.

I really like mine. Parts aren’t cheap, and an oil change is 12 quarts. But Mobil 1 euro oil meets the vag spec so it’s not too pricey anymore. Right about $100. The intake costs $1800 if one of the flaps breaks, but look for the later year vehicles to get the updated parts. Mine is an ‘09. I know some intakes were changed up in the ‘08 model year .

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 11/05/2018 at 15:18

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And a PPI and service history are a must.  

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc 11/05/2018 at 15:26

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Yeah, I figure seat-of-the-pants would be just fine, haha.

I think a big advantage the S6 has is the fact that it doesn’t have air suspension. As for the sensors, that concerns me too, one of the biggest ones seems to be the fact that the O2 sensors require the engine to come out?

And to “read the sensors” I assume you are talking about a code reader?

I also read about the flaps you mentioned, they do seem a tricky bit to contend with, possible unnecessarily complicated? I read about one guy that actually ended up removing his.

Does the intake cost $1800 when one of the flaps break because at that point you need to replace the intake in its entirety?

edit: thanks for your response!

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 11/08/2018 at 00:20

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The intake is a one part kinda deal.  Audi doesn’t sell just the flaps.  One of the vendors was looking at doing something like that, but I don’t remember seeing anything come of it.  As for the scanner, you’ll want the Ross tech vag-com.  It’s worth every penny.  You can get into each module to see what’s going on.  

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc 11/08/2018 at 09:27

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Yeah, so I’ve found in my further research. I’ve come to the conclusion that if I get one, I’d want to see a history of carbon cleaning and I would thus hope for a good-functioning intake. Even better if they can confirm it was either replaced or in known good/clean working order. I saw some terrifying pictures of flaps covered in carbon, pieces falling off and the intake valves looked like a rock cave instead of a machined metal piece.

Have you had carbon cleaning done? Or done it yourself? I hear it’s a 13-15hr job.

And I saw when you mentioned Mobil 1 that you get it at Meijer, you must be at least semi near me, since that’s a midwest thing. I’m in the Grand Rapids area.

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 11/08/2018 at 11:31

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Some before, after and before photos of the DIY carbon cleaning at 55k. Not the worst, but glad to have done it. It was a long process, but to do it again, it will go quicker. The only real pain is the connectors on the front of the intake that have to come off. I had to pull the nose off to get clearance. But without that headache, it wouldn’t have been too long to tear down. But I also bought all new gaskets and used the time to replace the valve cover gaskets due to leaking oil. And the little o rings on the oil filter assembly were replaced at the same time due to leakage as well. Then I did a spark plug change at that time as well. Figured it couldn’t ever be easier than with all the parts our of the way.

And yeah, I’m just north of Detroit.  So not too far away.

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc 11/08/2018 at 12:11

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Ah gotcha, what sort of tools/chemicals did you use?

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 11/08/2018 at 12:52

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I used the HF sandblast kit and fine walnut shells. It was a bit temperamental with the feed of the shells, but once that a ironed out, it worked great. I bought a port cap from a guy on the forums  that fit the port perfectly and kept the blasting media in the cylinder.  

Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs > merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc 11/08/2018 at 13:08

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Ah that sounds like a great way to do it, thanks for all your comments/pictures/thoughts!

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > Yowen - not necessarily not spaghetti and meatballs 11/08/2018 at 17:29

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My pleasure.